"And if one prevail against him, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken." (Ecclesiastes 4:12 KJV)

Lisa's Testimony - 10/27/07
(Audio)

Lisa's Testimony - 10/27/07
(Transcript)

___________________________________________________________________

(Part 1 audio reference – 0 mins. 0 secs.)

Bruce: Okay, it’s a, it’s a 90-minute tape, so we’ve got 45 minutes on each side.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: But anyway, lets uh…

Lisa: Well, where, uh, where would you like me to start?

Bruce: Well, uh…

Lisa: Would you like me to give you a little bit of background?

Bruce: I want to start by asking the Lord to be with us.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Thank you Jesus. Heavenly Father, Lord, we just thank You so much for, Lord, Your Divine appointments. And we thank You for bringing Sister Lisa to the website, and Lord, only You know what the future holds as far as the ministry in her life and uh, the prophetic calling that You have oh her. And Lord we just ask that as she shares this testimony Father God, we just ask that uh, let Your arm be wrapped around her, let her feel Your presence, let her know that You’re right there with her, and that the visitation of these very unpleasant memories will be used to help other people, uh, come to a saving relationship with Jesus Christ. And uh, Lord, we give you the glory for our lives, and what You’ve called us to be. And we say it in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Lisa: Amen. Okay. Um…

Bruce: So you were starting a while ago. You were talking about your drug life.

Lisa: I was raised Catholic.

Bruce: Yeah.

Lisa: But I wasn’t devout. I did my first communion, um, I got very heavy into drugs. Um, I got involved with the family who had ties to witchcraft. Um, I dabbled a little, not really believing in it, even though I knew it was wrong. Okay, I believed in Jesus Christ, but I didn’t have a personal relationship with Him. Okay – you know what I’m talking about?

Bruce: Oh, yeah.

Lisa: And, um, with the drugs – doing the drugs – made me curious about the witchcraft. Well, I had gotten away from the family, and um, I started watching the Christian channel, and I just asked – you know – for Jesus Christ to come into my heart…

Bruce: And the family you’re talking about is your own family?

Lisa: No, it is, um, my son’s family. My 4-year-old son’s family.

Bruce: Okay

Lisa: Which 2 of them are saved, now...

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: …and go to church with me. So, um, anyhow, so I got back involved with the family, and things just got, uh, got really bad. I mean, um, not only the witchcraft, but like um, I think they dealt with the police, like as far as ah busting people, like, uh, drug dealers, other addicts, you know I was told there was a big network of these people, you know? And I honestly believe this is Satan’s little helpers. You know how, how the AntiChrist, how he can enter into the government, he can enter into the police department, he can enter into the mental health department, just various places, you know, how he can enter. Um, well my brother, he committed suicide, and before he committed suicide, he told my mother that he’d gotten himself involved in something and he didn’t know how to get out of it. Why I didn’t know what he was talking about. I had no idea, because my eyes weren’t opened to the fact of what I saw later, okay. Um, when I finally got away from the family, um, uh, Jaden’s father told me that he had something for me. You know that something terrible was going to happen to me. And, um, I, I just blew it off, I really didn’t think much of it. You know, even though I was using drugs, I was still trying to read my Bible – I know that sounds bad – but I was still trying to get to know Christ, but I wasn’t yet delivered from the drugs. I was watching the Christian channel. I would try to learn as much as I could about it. Um, and um, I just lost my train of thought.

Bruce: Talking about the curse.

Lisa: About the what?

Bruce: Your husband, or your…

Lisa: Oh yeah, about, yeah, about him saying that, and I was waiting tables one day, and this man came up to me and he said “You are going to be persecuted for your faith.” Well, I didn’t know what he was talking – I’m going to be persecuted? You know, I thought that only happens in other countries. You know, I didn’t, you know I didn’t go to church, I was basically just doing it on my own. You know, I didn’t think people were going to persecute me for believing in Christ. Um, but the more I stayed in this drug, this drug, whatever, drug society, they would start making little comments about, um, about me being a Jesus freak. And like start, they would start saying things that, that, that I only said in my house. You know they started repeating things that they had to have been listening in. You know, like with, I don’t know if they tapped my phone, or if my phones were tapped, or what was going on. And it really started scaring me, I was being followed everywhere. Um, like it, it, I was being, like people, okay you know in Psalms where it says, um, like I started underlining all this stuff in Psalms: “Mine enemies speak evil of me, When shall he die, and his name perish? All that hate me whisper together against me: against me do they devise my hurt. Yea, mine own familiar friend, in whom I trusted, which did eat of my bread, hath lifted up his heel against me.” Uh, stuff like that. You know, I felt like people that didn’t even know me, hated me. Okay? Um, everywhere I turned, and there was also demonic forces coming after me, too, and um, so I tried to commit suicide. Well, when I, when I woke up or when I came out of the hospital, um, I was really freaked out because the police, okay, I, I gotta go back. I was talking to a Catholic priest at the time, and when I was talking to him, he wasn’t talking to me like a priest should talk a girl. Do you know what I’m talking about?

Bruce: Well, I don’t know, be more specific. There’s a LOT of things (laughs)…

Lisa: He, he was being, um, kind of sexual.

Bruce: Okay. I understand that.

Lisa: And it kind of made me, it kind of made me wonder about, you know, about the Catholic religion – you know – was it just him, or, are all the priest like that?

Bruce: This was when you were in the hospital?

Lisa: No.

Bruce: Before?

Lisa: Before I went into the hospital.

Bruce: Before you tried to commit suicide.

Lisa: Yes, because all this stuff was happening, and people following me, um, people that I didn’t even know knowing things about me. Um, it, it started reminding me of, that’s what happened to my brother, you know my brother saying that he got into to something that he, he didn’t know what he’d gotten into. You know and eventually killed himself over. Well anyhow, I get out of the, um hospital, and they take me to um, to a Glen O, Glen Oaks, or whatever. No, not Glen Oaks, uh, Parkland Psychiatric Ward.

Bruce: Alright, how did you, how, what was your method of suicide?

Lisa: Uh, I started taking pills.

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: Seroquel, uh, Valium, beer, whatever, I mean I prayed to God to forgive me for doing it, but, ah, ah there was so much evil surrounding me that I felt like He lifted his hedge of protection away from me. I, I didn’t feel the presence of God anymore. Do you know what I’m talking about?

Bruce: Oh, yeah.

Lisa: And um, I just, I, I just I saw no hope. Well, I woke up, and I was in Parkland Psychiatric Ward. And when I woke up, there was a guy sitting there that was in one of the dope houses that I used to buy dope from. Obviously, he was probably undercover and I didn’t know about it. You know, I, I think that I had started figuring things out, they knew that I had started figuring things out, and wanted to hush me up – wanted, wanted me to go so crazy, to where nobody would believe a word I said. You know what I’m talking about, because the police were involved. It was kinda, it was like the government is CORRUPT…

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: REALLY corrupt.

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: And I was beginning to see it, and they knew I was seeing it. So that, I, I had a feeling they were doing everything that they – they wanted to let me know that they, they knew what I talked about, they knew where I was going, they knew who I saw, they knew what I bought from the grocery store…You know it reminded me of The Pale Horse Rider (http://www.fmh-child.org/PaleHorse.html), that book I read after all this had happened. Well, anyhow, after I woke up, um, I looked in the mirror and I really thought I was dead. I thought I was in Hell. I, I didn’t feel the presence of God, um, the people around me were almost EVIL, it, it was like they were POSSESSED by Satan. Do you know what I’m talking about? Like there was NO GOOD in them.

Bruce: I’m with you.

Lisa: And um, then the medical people, they called me in the office, and they were like, “So do you know why your brother died?” Or “Did you ever figure out what happened with your brother?”

Bruce: Mmm!

Lisa: I never told them what happened to my brother. You know, and then they started saying things to me that I never told them. And I’m sitting here thinking, “Oh my gosh, this ‘Big brother’ thing really is true.” You know? These people have been listening to my conversations, um, you know before I got out of there, they were like “You need to stay away from drug dealers, and, and uh drugs”. And I was like, okay, so I did whatever I could to get out of there. Well, low and behold, I, I went back. I, I, you know did drugs maybe twice, and then, um, obviously the guy that, I guess he was an undercover police officer…

Bruce: Were you shooting up or what?

Lisa: Uh, yeah, I was shooting up heroin, but this time it was crack.

(Part 1 audio reference – 10 mins. 30 secs.)

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: And, um, he gave me a dose that nearly killed me. I, I think he wanted me dead. So I never did it again. And so I started looking for a job. Well, every job I went to, it seemed like everybody knew everything about me.

Bruce: Were you making a living off of drugs?

Lisa: Was I making a living off of drugs?

Bruce: Yeah, you said you finally went to work.

Lisa: Um, no, but I, I got child support, I would use my child support for it.

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: I was waiting tables – I was waiting tables, um, you know, until I committed, or tried to commit suicide. And um then I went to this one job in Irving, and again, these people knew EVERYTHING about me. They knew what me and my father talked about the night before. They knew um, that they would say things about, uh, “she’s never going to change”, um, would make references about uh, about me being a Christian, um saying stuff like, “I bet you pray, I bet you pray all the time”, and I was like “Yes”, not once did I deny God, I always carried my Bible with me, um, I even had someone tell me that I shouldn’t be carrying my Bible, that I should be carrying an A.A. [Alcoholics Anonymous] book, which I didn’t, I continued to carry my Bible. Um, and the whole time, like, the Holy Spirit told me that Jesus is coming back soon, because I couldn’t figure out what was going on. I mean I would literally lay in my bed all night, crying. Like all these Psalms in David, you know, um, you know when he’s crying out to God, “Have you forgotten me?” Um, um “Have mercy upon me, O God, according to thy lovingkindness: according unto the multitude of thy tender mercies blot out my transgressions. Wash me, ah, throughly from mine iniquity, cleanse me from my sin. For I acknowledge my transgressions: and my sin is ever before me. Against thee, and thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest. Create in me…” ‘Cause you know I needed to get right – with God. You, you know I knew that, that, that I had brought this on myself. But I also, um, I, I was like, “Save me, O God, by thy name, and judge me by thy strength. Hear my prayer, O God; give ear to the words of my mouth. For strangers are rising up against me, and oppressors seek after my soul: they have not set God before them.” Do you get where I’m going?

Bruce: Oh, yeah

Lisa: Like um, I, I just wanted to die: “Because of the voice of the enemy, because of the oppression of the wicked: for they cast iniquity upon me, and in wrath they hate me. My heart is sore pained within me: and the terrors of death are fallen upon me. Fearfulness and trembling are come upon me, and horror hath overwhelmed me. And I said, Oh that I had wings like a dove! for then would I fly away, and be at rest.” And all I kept saying was, “Lord Jesus, even if I am in Hell, You can reach down in here and get me out, because I really felt like I was in the pit of Hell, because everywhere I turned – you know I believe it was a combination of Satan – I believe it was a combination of the sins that I had committed – and, um, God just told me to hold on. And um, I really believed in my heart that He was telling me to get ready. He’s coming back. And He was trying to prepare me, and to show me how much evil and corruption there is out there in that world. And, so, I got this one job, and the Lord told me to stay, okay? They put me in a cubicle, and they would surround me by different people every day, okay? And constantly make little comments about, uh, I know they were, they were at me about being a prostitute, that I would never change, that “Yeah, she found God, NOW”, you know, how “Let’s see if GOD can help her”. You know, that kind of stuff? That’s the kind of persecution that I was getting. And um, um, so I just stayed, and I stayed, and I took it, and I prayed, and I prayed, and I prayed, and then, um, finally about two weeks after that, I mean, I, literally it took everything in me to get up in the morning. Um, like I FAINT – you know when David talked about how he was so weak – you know, from fainting, you know when you feel like that, when,when people are coming against you, so many people are coming against you, and you have no help. You know, I had my own mother telling me, “Why are you reading the Bible, Jesus can’t save you.” You know, I had my dad telling, you know, everybody telling that I was CRAZY, that Jesus would never SAVE me, I mean I, I couldn’t believe the stuff that was coming out of their mouth. And then at night my son would be, he, he would – this is the house that my brother shot himself in, that me and my son were staying in. Um, I would see demonic spirits. And every night my brother – I mean my son – would wake up SCREAMING, screaming-crying. So I just woke up without even knowing, I guess it was the Holy Spirit, and I said, “Satan, I rebuke you in the name of Jesus”, and this spirit went THROUGH my TV – lit up the whole TV – and made the whole T, the whole room light up, and I just laid right back down in peace.

Bruce: Thank You, Jesus.

Lisa: So, I, I, kept going to work, you know, they would think, it was like the more I went to work, the ANGRIER, the ANGRIER these people got. It was like Satan was SO MAD that I came again for more. You know what I’m talking about?

Bruce: Yes, ma’am.

Lisa: Then finally, you know I was reading the Book of Revelation and I was asking the Lord, “Which church do I belong to?” You know, this was maybe a week before He gave me the revelation, and the last day that I was on that job, um, the Spirit told me, “Philadelphia”.

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: This was when I thought I couldn’t take it anymore. You know, when I, when I literally could not step one, couldn’t take it not one more day in that HELL HOLE. Okay? And it, it was true. You know, He, He, He ah, He says, “I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, no man can shut it: for thou hast little strength”, and I’m telling you I had NO STRENGTH (choking up with emotion) when He gave me this. And He says, “Thou has kept my word, and has not denied me” Because as much as everybody kept telling me to “curse God”, or to, or to “put the Bible down”, or “He’s not going to help you”, I NEVER DID. And He said, and “Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved, I have loved thee.” And that just made me – that just brought me so much peace to my heart, you know, and my soul. And, it was like I heard in my head, “It is done.” You know…

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: And, I, I, I ha, it, it got better – it wasn’t, it wasn’t immediately okay – but I knew in my soul, I had, I had obeyed His command.

Bruce: You made a breakthrough. Lisa: And um, you know, I don’t know, if, um, this is what happened to my brother and he didn’t have Jesus to cling to. Um, but I think, I think, um, it happens to a lot of people ‘cause they kept going, “I guess she wants to be famous – I guess she wants to be famous.” You know, and I couldn’t understand what they were talking about, you know. But, um, I just held on to Jesus. I kept telling Him, you know, “Even if I am in Hell, You can reach down in here and get me.

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: And He did, He saved me.

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: And um, the weird part is, is that my roommate is one of the people that I think has something to do with all this. And I keep asking God, you know, “Why am I here, why am I hear?” And He keeps, ah, ah, making me go to Jonah. You know how Jonah didn’t want to PREACH to…

Bruce: (laughs)

Lisa: …he wanted his enemies, to SUFFER? (laughs)

Bruce: I just printed out a “Jonah” tract, last nigh, ah, this MORNING.

Lisa: Really?

Bruce: Yeah, I send it to you.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: I send you the tract – the link.

Lisa: But I, I just love Him. Like I said, I stumbled after that. You know, I got into a good job, and, um, I, I, but you see the thing was that I never got into a church. Okay, I never had that FAMILY. You know, and I, I knew that I had Jesus, but I also needed that community, you know I needed to be around other Christians, I needed to grow in my faith, and that’s what caused me to STUMBLE. I, I had probably after all that, um, six months after that had happened, I went back to heroin, and I think a lot of it was to cope with what I’d been through, and, and kind of just get that out of my mind. It kind of terrified me for a long time, that there was such evil in this world, um, and then God led me out AGAIN. He, He didn’t give up on me, you know, here I am living with this guy, you know, not, my roommate – basically taking care of me while I clean his house, and me and my son attend church, and I can read my Bible all day long, every day, and you know, worship God, it’s just um, I’m just kinda waiting to see what He has in store for me. You know?

(Part 1 audio reference – 20 mins. 56 secs.)

Bruce: What, what’s his name?

Lisa: Um, who?

Bruce: The man.

Lisa: My roommate?

Bruce: Yeah.

Lisa: Chuck Morales

Bruce: Chuck Morales.

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: And, and your son’s name?

Lisa: Ah, Jayden.

Bruce: Jayden?

Lisa: Uh huh. Jayden, J-A-Y-D-E-N

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: And, ah, oh yeah, because you know, sometimes he gets drunk – my roommate – and I’ll try to bring up what had happened, you know, because he, he says that he, he wants to help me because he feels guilty what happened to my brother. And he feels like, um, um a lot of bad things have happened to him because of what happened to my brother. And these are things that he says when he’s drunk. So I try not to elaborate on them, I try to let him tell me, but he says that I was part of a project. Now I don’t know whether to believe that or not – I don’t’ know.

Bruce: You know, what, what you, I mean, the way they knew everything that was happening in your life. Have you ever read He Came To Set The Captives Free (http://www.harvestwarriors.com/store/index.php?l=product_detail&p=3)?

Lisa: No, unh unh.

Bruce: Rebecca Brown?

Lisa: No

Bruce: Ah, she was ah (clears throat) – she was a, a doctor.

Lisa: Mm, hmm

Bruce: And working in a hospital, there’s, you know, if you start looking in the hospital, and the Satanic influence that’s working within it – that system…

Lisa: Uh huh

Bruce: …it’ll really blow you away. She was a doctor, and ah, she became a Christian, and she got thrown right in the MIDDLE of Satanic cults. I mean FULL, FULL BORE.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: And she was experiencing things that, you know, would make your experiences look like kindergarten. Uh, she was actually having, when she was standing up against these cults, she was actually having uh, things fly around in her room.

Lisa: Oh, yes, I’ve had uh, I’ve had um, um, after I went through all this…

Bruce: Uh huh.

Lisa: …I had a demonic spirit choke me and lift me up off the bed, and um, I, I couldn’t even say “Jesus”, but I was like “Jesus” (whisper), and it DROPPED me. That was the craziest thing that ever happened to me. But…

Bruce: Well…

Lisa: Yea…

Bruce: It sounds like you’ve been through some stuff, too.

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: But, but a lot of it was these Satanists praying against you, against her, and they were doing a lot of things, ah, paranormal, as in ah, I mean these are, these are upper crust Satanists.

Lisa: Okay, yes, I’ve heard about them walking through walls and stuff…

Bruce: Right, and, and actually using animals, even, to tap in and hear what’s going on inside the room

Lisa: Yes!

Bruce: Um, you know, they can do some weird things…

Lisa: But, but…

Bruce: …through the power of Satan.

Lisa: Yes – because, and, but you know what, NOBODY believes me. That’s why I don’t tell anybody, like I tried telling my parents. Have you ever read Divine Revelation, uh, wait, A Revelation Of Hell (http://www.spiritlessons.com/Mary_K_Baxter_A_Divine_Revelation_of_Hell.htm) by um, Mary Baxter?

Bruce: I haven’t read it, but we listened to it, we’ve got the audio.

Lisa: Okay, well after I read her book, I have actually seen some of the demons that she talks about, that are bats, they look like bats, and they were flying all around my roommate’s head. OK?

Bruce: Mmm!

Lisa: And I’ve seen them. And um, oh it was scary, it was disgusting, and, and um, what she was talking about, ’cause, ‘cause when I, when I was, when they were repeating the things that have gone on in my house, I was literally looking everywhere to see if there was like “bugs”, or little cameras and stuff, and in her book she says the AntiChrist can look in ANY house, and it’s not visible to the naked eye. You know, the way, he, he looks, or he gets into houses, and listens and looks, you can’t see it with the naked eye.

Bruce: Right.

Lisa: And it’s like the “Big Brother” type thing.

Bruce: Right.

Lisa: And um, people, people don’t believe it. Ah, ah, how do get people, are they gonna believe it when it’s, when he’s FULLY revealed, or what?

Bruce: No, it’s, it’s going to get worse, I mean, you know, the, the deception is even going to be greater, once, once he shows himself.

Lisa: So do you think God just, well, do you think, I felt like He was testing me to see if I was of this world – and if I would hang on to Him, like it, like it said – and not deny Him.

Bruce: Well, you, you are very special. I mean you’re VERY special. I mean that’s, that’s who we deal with – very special people. People who are extremely gifted, is who God sends to us. Alright, and that’s why you’ve gone through such crazy experiences. The devil wants you BAD.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Alright, and since the day you were born – the day the you were conceived – the devil has had his eyes on you – he has marked you – to destroy you…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …because you’re such a powerful being, uh, for the work of God.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, you are going to oppose him GREATLY. And he KNOWS it. So he wants to get rid of you.

Lisa: YES.

Bruce: Alright. But you had to go through this, you know, God has allowed it…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …for a REASON.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce. Once you, you know, I mean, I, I was an engineering manager, and I got fired in 1999, for, for for speaking a word to the CEO of the company, and when I lost my job, God said, “Good”…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …you’re where I want you, you’re going to learn to TRUST Me, now. It scared me to DEATH. I was brought up in a little small town, in a ‘squeaky clean’ environment…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …ah, you know, everybody knew everybody, ah, you know, I was, that was my LIFE. And, and to be thrown into what God put me into was totally, ah, it just ‘freaked me out’…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …to lose your job, to lose your income, to lose your family, to become homeless, you know, that was TOTALLY foreign to me.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: Couldn’t even imagine it.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: But that’s what He wanted me to go through. So I could learn to trust him.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: And through it ALL though, and, and, livin’ in the mission, and, and, you know, workin’ with the homeless people that would come in there, you know I learned a lot, and I’ve SEEN demons…

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: …that I would have never seen before, if I wouldn’t have had to go through this. And, and you were talking about a testimony that you read where I went to church and the pastor said, “Take off your shirt and tie, your ministry’s getting ready to blast off.” You know, “You’re going places you’ve never been before…”

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …you know, with the homeless, the alcoholics, the drug addicts, the body piercing...

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …you know he spoke that, right in the MIDDLE of the sermon.

Lisa: Hehe (laughs)

Bruce: Blew me AWAY!

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: And then it HAPPENED. Alright, but through it all, I have learned who the ARE. It’s called, it’s becoming ‘street smart’.

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: You learn who the demons are.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: And now, you are prepared, to do some really strong WARFARE…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …because of what you’ve been through.

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: Alright? So BE ENCOURAGED.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: But ALSO know, that because your, because of your gifts, He demands a lot of you.

Lisa: Okay. You see, I don’t know, everyday I pray, where does He want me, you know – what does He want me to do. I want Him to use me, I want, you know I just want to go save EVERYONE, I want to let everyone know, you know, demons are real, Christ is real: Choose HIM. You know, and I, I think, um, He’s PREPARING me for something, and, and I just don’t know what it is.

Bruce: Well, you don’t have to know. But, I can tell you ONE THING, you’re a PROPHET! I can tell you that much.

Lisa: Really? I thought that.

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: I didn’t know. I didn’t’ think I was worthy.

Bruce: Alright, you’re a prophet, and, and, and you know, you don’t, all you have to do is just take the steps, and, and you don’t have to know why you’re doing it. And, you know, I didn’t, God didn’t tell me I was a prophet until after I had spoken a prophetic word that got me fired, and, and everybody turned against me and said I was crazy.

Lisa: Right (laughs)!

Bruce: Ah, and THEN He said, “Now you’ve got the credentials of a prophet”. I said, “What are you talking about?”

Lisa: Huh, huh (laughs).

Bruce: He said, “You’ve got the credentials of a prophet. Look at John 4:44.” What did they say about

Jesus? He, He did not, He wasn’t even welcomed in His own country, because He was a prophet.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: Alright, and, and that’s the credentials of a prophet.

Lisa: Cause that’s what I kept saying, too, because my own family rejected me, everybody rejected me…

Bruce: Well, a prophet has to…

Lisa: …they did not believe a word I said.

Bruce: …they have to be tested greatly, because they’re the ones who’re to speak God’s word, that, that, is, that everybody has rejected…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …you know, you become the mouthpiece of God. So it’s a very high position. And it’s very important that, that you only, that you learn to look only to HIM.

(Part 1 audio reference – 30 mins. 13 secs.)

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You can’t, you know, you can’t trust in ANYTHING but HIM.

Lisa: Right. I know that. I, I know that.

Bruce: But it’s so, it’s, it’s, you know, you have to do it like nobody else, because you’re a prophet.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You, you can’t waver one iota.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: You have to be stripped totally, completely – that you love nothing but HIM.

Lisa: Exactly. That’s where I, I’m at. You know, I love HIM. ONLY Him. I, I will risk anything for Him. I mean, I owe Him my life.

Bruce: Okay, and even your family, now.

Lisa: Huh?

Bruce: You have to be able to, to risk even your family.

Lisa: And I did…

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: …and I, I really did. I have, I will again.

Bruce: I’m talking about even the one that’s most precious to you. Your son.

Lisa: I know, I thought about that, too.

Bruce: Okay, you have to go all the way.

Lisa: I know.

Bruce: But…

Lisa: So do I just wait on the Lord and, and see where He wants to put me, or, or just stay where I’m at, and, I mean, ‘cause…

Bruce: Well, you, you can’t, the, the, where’re you going to church?

Lisa: Uh, I go to Trinity Life. And they have, uh, they do missions, uh, with the homeless people.

Bruce: Wha, wha, what’s the basic um, wha, wha, well let me tell you this. A prophet will not be welcomed in church.

Lisa: Right, I say some things and they don’t believe me.

Bruce: Okay. Alright, so, you know, when you, you know, every step that you take needs to be directly by the Father. He needs to tell you what to do – you can’t do anything on your own. Your life belongs to Him. If you take any steps that aren’t directed by Him, you’re walking out into a firing range, and you’ve got a target on you, and there’re shooting at you, and you could get hit. You know, you don’t have His power unless you’re walking in His authority. And you can’t do that unless you have his direction. He’s got to tell you what to do.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, so the most important thing for you can do is just seek Him constantly: “What do you want me to do, Lord?” And be, I mean be ALL THE TIME. I mean everywhere you go, everything that you do, try to make sure that it’s where He wants you to go and what He wants you to do.

Lisa: Okay. Well, it took me three months to join that church. You know, ‘cause I felt like I needed some sort of teaching. I, I needed some sort of, um, of, of family, something, like I, I wanna, like I, I’ve gotta be, ‘cause I came from where there are no Christians – AT ALL – to where I’m all, I’m all on my own.

Bruce: Well, you…

Lisa: You know what I’m saying?

Bruce: I know, but you have got THE ONE. Alright, who is the Teacher?

Lisa: Jesus.

Bruce: The Holy Spirit.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: You have the Comforter.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Okay. So, you know, you, you don’t really need anybody but Him.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: Alright. Well what does He want you to do. Alright, you know, NOTHIN’ ELSE MATTERS but what He wants. You know, I can’t, I can’t, I can’t over emphasize that…

Lisa: Okay, OKAY.

Bruce: …that, that is how we are born again.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: That’s God’s “rhema” word to us, and as we obey it, it goes in and it destroys the sinful nature, and it rebirths us in His Spirit. His Word is His Spirit. But you gotta GET IT. What do you want me to do? You know, “walk in the Spirit”, but you gotta KNOW what to DO.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Ah…

Lisa: OKAY.

Bruce: …and, and you know…

Lisa: I ask Him that everyday, “Wha, wha, what is it that you want me to do, Lord?” “What should I do?” “Use me.” “Use me.” “What should I do?”

Bruce: But, you know, do it CONSTANTLY. Be obsessive with it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: I mean to the point of when you get in your car – you got a car?

Lisa: No (laughs).

Bruce: Okay. Well, you know, I, if, I even, tell it like this, you know: If, if, if you’re at a place, ah, like a mall or something…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …or in a restaurant or something, that, that has multiple restrooms and you gotta go to the bathroom, ask Him which one to go to.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: I, I’m serious.

Lisa: I BELIEVE you.

Bruce: Take it to that extreme.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You know, let Him direct your paths.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: ‘Cause if you walk through a door that He doesn’t want you to walk through, you don’t know what might be on the side, on the other side, and you could get knocked down, you know, really hard.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You’re, you’re important. Hey, they HATE you.

Lisa: I know they do.

Bruce: You can’t afford to do anything that’s not in His will.

Lisa: Okay. OKAY.

Bruce: And you know, you, you, you’re, one important thing that you do, is you obeyed Him by getting in contact with, with us.

Lisa: Yes. YES. I, I, I, I’ve, ah, always obeyed Him, whether I knew it or, I, I mean I haven’t ALWAYS, but, with the really important things…I’ve obeyed Him. You know, against all odds, against losing my parents, against them calling me a “freak”, against, you know, with, even with all that, me thinking I’m going homeless, I have obeyed Him. But now I, I’m going to do what you, I, I’m going to ask Him EVERYTHING…

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: …Everything.

Bruce: Amen. And just remember, the BIG things are easier than the small things.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: It’s the “little foxes” that spoil the vine.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: That’s where we get in trouble. Because when we just, when we ignore Him on something so VERY SIMPLE, what happens is, it just, it, it, it’s like a domino effect. And just one little domino pushed over, you know, and it hits the one that’s standing up next to it, before you know it the whole bloomin’ row is laid out. When you get em, you know the domino, uh, game where you push one, and you’ve got ‘em lined up, standing up, one knocks the other one down, the other one knocks the other one down…

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: …and ZIP, you’ve got ‘em all knocked down before long, but that’s the way it works. Ah…

Lisa: I know I’m being disobedient with Him right now, with smoking.

Bruce: WELL?

Lisa: He doesn’t want me to smoke.

Bruce: Well, “true confession”.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: So what you gonna do?

Lisa: Quit.

Bruce: Well, I mean you just gotta, you know, He will give you the Strength…if, if, no, no, no. He has GIVEN you the Strength.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: If, if He said, “Quit”, you have everything need. You have His word.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You know, how did, how did, how did Peter walk on water?

Lisa: Faith.

Bruce: Faith in what?

Lisa: Power?

Bruce: Power from where?

Lisa: From the Holy Ghost, or from Jesus.

Bruce: Alright, let me explain it. Alright, when Peter told Jesus he wanted to come to Him, what did Jesus say?

Lisa: “Come”.

Bruce: One word: “Come”.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, Peter took that WORD, which is SPIRIT, and put his FAITH to it, and he walked out on water.

Lisa. Mm HMM.

Bruce: Now you can’t, you know, I’m writing a message on the faith, the Word-Faith Movement right now.

Lisa: OH, yeah.

Bruce: Ah, it’s entitled Dead Liver-less Frogs And The Word-Faith Movement (http://www.fmh-child.org/S11.11.07.html).

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: And it was a news, ah, internet news article that, ah, I saw, ah, almost two years ago. And it was about these frogs, in, in, ah, Germany, ah, thousands of them. And they were dying and their innards had just popped out of their bodies, and, and they were sitting there squirming and dying.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: I mean, just littered this pond, and they couldn’t figure out why. And this, ah, this brilliant, ah, I don’t know if he was a veterinarian or what, but he came up with the, the theory that crows had pecked out their livers.

Lisa: Mmm.

Bruce: And that was all they did. They, they, they pecked through their back, only took out the liver, and then when they pulled their beak back out, the rest of the innards gushed out when the frog blowed up to protect himself. He actually killed him own self. But anyway, and the Lord told me to save it, and here it is two years later, that I’ve actually seen two people now…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …who have basically lost their liver, who were associated with Word-Faith Movement.

Lisa: Are you SERIOUS?

Bruce: I’m very serious. Ah, I’ll share it with you when I’m finished with it.

Lisa: Oh, can I ask you one question?

Bruce: Yeah.

Lisa: Okay, all of a sudden the Lord told me to stop smoking pot. Okay, so, ‘cause I was still smoking marijuana, okay, and so I just LAID IT DOWN. Okay. Now I know what you’re talking about when He tells you to do something, you have the power to do it. I had NEVER stopped smoking, okay. It was SO EASY to do. And then I get on your website. And it says, Marijuana: The Weed God (http://www.fmh-child.org/WeedGod.html).

Bruce: I’m working on that one, too.

Lisa: Does that have to do with marijuana?

Bruce: It sure does.

Lisa: Okay, well the Lord led me there and I obeyed. It’s just this, ah, CIGARETTE, it, it’s like the most awful thing, it’s like Satan’s last hold on me.

Bruce: But you…

Lisa: Or something, right? That’s just the old, that’s just my, my carnal, that’s my FLESH, that’s my spirit allowing my flesh to do it, right?

Bruce: If, if you love the Lord, you’re gonna obey Him. Because, just think about this. Every time that you pick up a cigarette, now that He has told you to STOP, you’re trampling on the Blood of Jesus. His Blood paid for that word that He gave you, that’s gonna overcome that SIN NATURE in you, if you will only OBEY HIM.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Every time that you pick up a cigarette, you’re, you’re, you’re thumbing your nose at the Blood of

Jesus. Think about it that way.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And I know you love Him more than that.

Lisa: Yes.

(Alarm sounds)

(Part 1 audio reference – 40 mins. 31 secs.)

Bruce: Hold on. (Turns off alarm.) Okay, anyway. Ah, yeah, you, you, you gotta do it. I mean…

Lisa: I mean ‘cause it’s wrong to smoke, right, I mean…

Bruce: Well, that’s not the point. The point is God said quit. Nothing else matters. You know, God has had me do some things that I have always been taught are TOTALLY immoral. I mean, but He told me to do it. You know, you do what He tells you.

Lisa: Okay. I think He’s justifying that maybe He DIDN’T. You know, maybe…

Bruce: Well, you don’t WANT to. (Laughs.)

Lisa: You what, you know how you do that?

Bruce: Your FLESH…

Lisa: Yeah. But I have even had, I’ve even had someone e-mail me Scriptures to help me quit, you know, like stuff to help me quit. So I know that He wants me to.

Bruce: Look, all you have to do…well let’s pray right now. Let, let me just, let’s, let’s ask Him. Thank You, Jesus. Heavenly Father, in the name of Jesus, we just come before You, and, Lord just asking You one simple thing, Father God. Is it Your will that Sister Lisa quit smoking, Father God. Was that Your word to her to quit? Does she now have the power, through Your word, to walk in obedience, and, and put down these cigarettes FOREVER. Amen, Thank You Jesus.

Lisa: Amen.

Bruce: Now I can say, “Yes”.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: I can say I heard, “Yes”.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: So I’m, I’m in agreement.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: I’m, I’ll CONFIRM it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: So you have a witness.

Lisa: OKAY! (laughs with joy) Alright…

Bruce: Okay, now…

Lisa: I’m not going to justify it anymore. Okay.

Bruce: …just, just remember, you know, Jesus in the Garden, ah…

Lisa: Yeah, that’s what I keep picturing.

Bruce: …alright, but you know, when He was sweating that Blood, you know, He was, He was going through that, that ah, that BREAKTHROUGH point…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …you know, once He committed Himself to drink of that CUP…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …He, He couldn’t – He wouldn’t turn back. It was DONE. It was as good as if the, the, the, it was, it was almost as good as if the Cross had already been finished. There was no way that Satan could get Him to back down after that point.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: He sweated Blood…

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …but He made a breakthrough.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: He MADE UP HIS MIND that He was gonna DO what God the Father wanted.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Now that’s where you need to get.

Lisa: That’s exactly where I’m at right now.

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: Ah, yes. If the Father told you that He, that is, that He commanded me to quit, I’m quitting.

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: And thank you.

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: (Laughs with relief.) Okay.

Bruce: And that’s all it takes. Now just grit your teeth, and…

Lisa: Ah, yes…and bear it.

Bruce: …and bear through it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And just call on Him.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You know, when you’re weak, He’s strong.

Lisa: Exactly. Okay (sighs with resolve). Well, I hope, is, is it alright if I keep in touch with you?

Bruce: LISTEN – you BETTER stay in touch!

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Ah, you know, we, we, this is only the beginning. I Can GUARANTEE you.

Lisa: Oh, I know.

Bruce: And, and, but you better HOLD ON TIGHT.

Lisa: I will. I have before. I, I know, I know what’s on the other side..

Bruce: Okay, but because, you know, this is what we’re all about. We’re, we’re a ministry of prophets.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: And, and, and listen; MANY are called…

Lisa: But FEW are chosen.

Bruce: …but FEW – I mean FEW. You know, as, as, as you continue, I don’t know how much you’ve read on the website, but the Lord wants me to direct you to, to one particular message.

Lisa: Okay. Hold on (paper rustling). Okay.

Bruce: Alright, it’s, it’s ah, at the top of the page you’ll see A Last Chance Ministry (http://www.fmh-child.org/LastChance.html).

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: Alright. Have you been there?

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: Alright. Did you read one?

Lisa: The, the last chance. Yea, I’ve read a lot of ‘em.

Bruce: Well, I mean, did you read the one about Kathy Kowtko?

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Okay. So you’ve already done what He wanted you to do.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Okay. Alright, reflect on that. Reflect on, on, on this. I mean she, she, she was another one. There’s MANY of them. I mean there’s so MANY of them – it just, it, it, it, it makes you sick.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: And, and…

Lisa: It, it, she’s the one that, that, that the Lord wanted her to move down there.

Bruce: Yes!

Lisa: Okay, and she DIDN’T go.

Bruce: No!

Lisa: Why DIDN’T she?

Bruce: Well, WHY – I mean – WHY haven’t you quit SMOKING???

Lisa: I know, I just quit, I quit smoking.

Bruce: Alright, but I mean, you know, the point is WE’RE WEAK…

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: …and we got a million and one excuses why NOT TO. Alright, but, you know, SHE was raised Catholic. You know SHE was molested. She, you know, the DEMONS attacked her. You know, she even went to, ah, she even attended the first, the first ah, ah, WOODSTOCK.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: She was THERE.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Ah, she had experiences, ah experienced SO MUCH, ah, but yet God, ah, you know, in the DEMONIC world…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …but the Lord was always there to pull her through. You know, the angel that came into her room and delivered her from alcohol...

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: …but she walked right back into it. You know?

Lisa: Okay, so, but she’s, so…

Bruce: She’s lost, you know, and the door’s CLOSED.

Lisa: So you think He would close – I’m not gonna smoke anymore.

Bruce: Well, it’s, it’s, it’s not that HE closes the door, it’s that YOU get to the point that you can’t go there. You know, you don’t have the STRENGTH anymore. When I was living in the rescue mission, ah, I, I would, you know, I was assistant chaplain, and what I would do was just sit in the chapel all day long, and wait on people to come in. And I would be studying, studying the Word of God, and, and I talked to a LOT of people. And quite a few of ‘em, um, I would ask the question, you know, do you know JESUS? And they would say, “I used to. I used to walk with Him, but then I started doing my own thing.” And I said, “Well why don’t you come back to Him?” And they would say, “It’s too hard. I can’t go through the pain of having to go back to Him.”

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: ‘Cause see, you have to pay for your sin, right?

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Sin is something that you don’t just throw away.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: You gotta overcome it, once you’ve got it. And once you, you know, every time we say “No” to God, we’re committing a sin. And we can get to the point where we have built up such a powerful sin in our life, that there’s no way to turn back.

Lisa: Okay, so, but um, so, you think, okay, ‘cause, okay, I, I believe that Him telling Kathy to move down there is a BIG thing, you know what I’m saying?

Bruce: He even took her on a…

Lisa: That she should move down there.

Bruce: …on a trip.

Lisa: Okay, when, when He gave me that, when He gave me, um, so you think that He, like, if, okay now that I KNOW – confirmed by you that He doesn’t want me to smoke anymore – I, I’m not going to smoke. I know that I might fall – maybe fall, you know – but do you think that would, that would make me go to Hell?

Bruce: Well, you know, we don’t know. We don’t know what next sin can be our LAST sin. We don’t know that. And, and that’s the way we need to look at it. You know, Paul said, “Work out your own sal”, I mean not Paul – ah, Philip – said “Work out your own salvation with fear an trembling.”

Lisa: Yes. I say that all the time.

Bruce: Every step that we take, if it’s the WRONG step, you know. Picture it this way: you’re in the middle of a great big field. You know, everywhere around you is nothing but wide-open space...

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …no trees, no nuthin’, just OPEN. You, but you’re I the middle of a mine field.

Lisa: Yeah

Bruce: You don’t’ know where the mines are.

Lisa: (clears throat)

Bruce: So, but you need to get out, you’re hungry. You know?

Lisa: But you know what He keeps telling me?

Bruce: So how do you get out?

Lisa: Huh?

Bruce: How do you get out?

Lisa: How do I get out of what?

Bruce: The MINE FIELD. There are mines everywhere around you. How do you get out so you can…

Lisa: By faith.

Bruce: Huh?

Lisa: By faith.

Bruce: By faith? You just take a step by faith? No, you have to ask the Lord where to put your foot next.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: He’ll tell you where to put your foot, and then, your faith, applied to it, you believe what He’s saying, and you put your foot down believing that you won’t get blown up,

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: But the point is, you gotta hear His word, and put your faith to it. Alright, but, if you don’t do that, if you decide to walk out on your OWN, you can get blown up.

Lisa: But you know what, He, He, He keeps telling, He keeps telling me to be sure that faith in Jesus will assure access into the eternal kingdom.

Bruce: Faith in Jesus. What does that mean?

Lisa: That, that JESUS saves, not by works. I, I’m not gonna get, I’m not gonna get to Heaven by works. I, I’m gonna get to heaven by having faith in JESUS, that He died for my sins – not that I should continue in my sins, at, at all – but to have faith that He died for me, you know…

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: …and that He rose from the dead. And believing that, with all of my heart, and having faith in Him, is, is gonna get me into Heaven as long as I’m not rebelling, you know, what do you call it, um, being REBELLIOUS.

Bruce: Well, disobedience is rebellion.

Lisa: Right. Disobedience is rebellion, I know that.

Bruce: Alright, but, but wait, wait a minute. Let me you tell you about having faith in Jesus. Okay?

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, hold on just a minute. (Flips tape.)

(Part 2 audio reference – 0 mins. 0 secs.)

Bruce: Alright, now, open, open your ears up, okay?

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Open your heart.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, ah, when I lost my job…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …ah, I was alone with God. Everybody turned against me…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: my family, my friends – I was crazy. And, once again, the Lord said, “Good, now it’s me and you.”

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: I’m gonna show you some things. He says I’m gonna, I want you to compare, I want you to write a sermonet series comparing the Old Testament animal sacrifices – three of ‘em: the sin offering, the trespass offering, and the burnt offering – compare those to the New Testament, John the Baptist coming on the scene with, ah, repentance – water baptism unto repentance – and Jesus with, ah, the Holy Spirit, baptism with the Holy Spirit with fire, and fire. Alright, He says, “I want you to compare THE TWO.” I said, “Lord I don’t know what you’re talking about.” He said, “I’m gonna show you.” Alright, the human body, we’re made in the image of God.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: The animal sacrifices not only represent Jesus, but they also represent us.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: You agree with that?

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Okay. Now, what Jesus did, now when we “believe in Jesus”, what we’re saying – even though we might not know it – is “what He did for us so that we can do for Him”.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You understand that?

Lisa: Yes, okay.

Bruce: ‘Cause we can’t do for Him, unless He did for us.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: We wouldn’t have the power.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: I mean that’s what the day of Pentecost is all about – the POWER.

Lisa: Okay, yes.

Bruce: Alright, so He has developed this for me. And, and, and He’s still developing it for me, and, and one of the main reasons is to take it to the Jews. Because the Old Testament, when you really get into it, it shows what was taking place with Him, when He was on the Cross. And the Jews are very gifted when it comes to the human anatomy. That’s why so many of them are doctors.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: And they’re very good doctors, too.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, but anyway, alright, what does is mean to believe in Jesus? Alright. Jesus did this in

REVERSE of what we have to do it. Alright, He came to earth in a sinless body… Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …flesh and blood, for the sole purpose of doing what Adam DIDN’T do, and then taking care of the problem that Adam brought about, because of the sin that HE did.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, the human body is where sin resides. Okay. You got that, right?

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: It doesn’t, it doesn’t reside anywhere else except in a human body.

Lisa: Right, RIGHT.

Bruce: So, in order for Jesus to defeat sin, He had to take on a human body.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, so He took on a sinless human body, and He, you know, Adam and Eve started out with, it’s, it’s like a blank CD or blank DVD, whatever you want to, you know, it’s something that is capable of having memory…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …having something stored in it. And that’s what the human body is. The human body is a marvelous thing that, that ah, stores information. It, it stores SPIRITS. It’s a SPIRITUAL thing.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And depending on what we do, depends on what spirits become a part of us.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You with me?

Lisa: Okay, yeah.

Bruce: Alright. So in the beginning, though, Adam and Eve, Adam and Eve, were, were, were neutral, I mean they were blank so to speak

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And every word of God that they obeyed, God the Spirit would become a part of them. See, this is the game of life. It’s a very SERIOUS game.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Who are you? What spirit are you of?

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And it only comes about by doing, who, either serving God or serving Satan.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You become a part of THEM when you do THEIR will.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You with me?

Lisa: Al, I’m, I’m with you.

Bruce: Alright.

Lisa: I actually read that on your website.

Bruce: Alright. Ephesians 2…

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …verse 8: For the, for by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God.” You know, that’s a GIVEN – “Not of works, lest any man should boast.” Our salvation came through Jesus.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: But why did He give us salvation? So that we could walk in obedience to God.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Because we’re born with sin.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Sin is a YOKE.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: I mean, you’re yoked to the DEVIL.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: You can’t get away.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: RIGHT?

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: Yeah – okay.

Bruce: Alright, because He wants you to walk with Him, because the very next verse says, “We are His workmanship created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in.” Alright. So, Jesus was born without sin so He could walk in obedience – TOTALLY and COMPLETELY for His entire life – and prepare His body to take on the sin of the world.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright?

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: He couldn’t go to the Cross until He had been TESTED “in all points”.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Because ALL POINTS is everywhere in the human body that you can sin.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: You understand?

Lisa: I understand.

Bruce: Alright. And you know we’re, we’re a great big network of NERVES, and we have SYNAPSES. They’re JUNCTIONS where you can make another course.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: You can, you can, you know, when Adam and Eve picked that fruit, it was not natural. They had to actually create a new pathway in their bodies to make that happen. They had to teach themselves to do that.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: They had to think about it. They had, they had to mentally go through the calisthenics of pickin’ the fruit and eatin’ it before they could do it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: They taught themselves to sin.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, with Jesus – you know – He taught Himself TOTAL OBEDIENCE in all points, and, and it, it was all through SUFFERING, you know. And then, when, when He went to the Cross, in ALL POINTS He had the Spirit of God in Him, in His Body.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: The last three hours on the Cross, when the Father, you know, turned away from Him…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …was when He took on the sin. He took in on in His Body. But His Body was prepared because He walked in obedience His whole life.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Every point in Him that could sin was already prepared by the Holy Spirit to defeat the sin that He took on at the Cross.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And it’s through the suffering that He went through, in combination with His obedience, and the Holy Spirit in Him, that that sin was defeated. And when He finally said, “It is finished”, there wasn’t a trace of sin left in His Body.

Lisa: Oh, His Body defeated all that sin that went into Him.

Bruce: That’s it! It chewed it up and spit it out! It’s, it’s metabolism.

Lisa: Where did you get, did you get this from God?

Bruce: Yes!

Lisa: Huh huh (laughs). That is AWESOME.

Bruce: And that’s why WORKS are so important. But they have to be works of the SPIRIT, not works of the FLESH.

Lisa: Okay…

Bruce: And that’s why when God said, “Stop smoking”, He’s working on a part of you that is SIN. And as you obey Him and go through the, the sweat and the pain and the suffering of obeying His Word, that you’re actually destroying a sin in you, and you don’t even know what it is. It might have nothing to do with cigarettes.

Lisa: It could…okay.

Bruce: It could be somethin’ to do with, you know, somethin’ else.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: We don’t know what the Holy Spirit’s gonna do IN US. All we know that it’s, it’s as we obey Him, we’re gonna be, become BORN AGAIN in some points of our lives.

Lisa: Okay. Okay, because you know why I, I was justifying it, is because I was a smoker when he gave me Revelation 7 – wait – 3:7. Okay?

Bruce: Right.

Lisa: But we do have to grow, right? We have to change, right? I mean, I keep on, He probably just got to, it’s probably to the point to where – HEY – it’s time to lay ‘em down. Right?

Bruce: He, He’s merciful, and He won’t ask more than we can do, and He knows what we can handle at the time

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: So He doesn’t lay anything on, I mean HE’S GENTLE. You know, He’ll strip us slowly. You know, I mean He’ll take you through one more hellacious ride, and then He’ll give you a vacation for a couple days…

Lisa: Okay. Praise God.

Bruce: And then He’ll saddle you up, and let’s go again.

Lisa: PRAISE GOD. Thank you. You have just, you, thank you. You have enlightened me. You know, that, that is just wonderful. I wish more Christians would get this kind of teaching.

Bruce: Well, we’re trying, but people don’t want to listen.

Lisa: Why?

Bruce: BECAUSE, it means that you gotta SUFFER. It means you gotta suffer through OBEDIENCE.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: People don’t want to hear that. They want “name it and claim it”, “gab it and grab it”.

Lisa: Oh – huh huh huh (laughs). YEAH, you’re right.

Bruce: I mean they want the EASY ride.

Lisa: That’s true. Because when I was reading the Bible, I was like, you know, the, “the gate is narrow”, I was trying to tell everybody, “Do you not understand that it’s NARROW – not everybody’s going to HEAVEN – not everybody that says there’s a, they are a Christian is going to HEAVEN.” You know…

Bruce: Alright, so…

Lisa: People don’t believe that.

(Part 2 audio reference – 10 mins. 18 secs.)

Bruce: Alright, so when we believe in JESUS, we believe in the PROCESS of the Cross. And we believe that now that He has, HIS BLOOD, has, has, see when we turn to Christ and say that, you know, how many people really understand what they’re saying. But when you say you believe in what He did for you, that His Blood has atoned you of your sins…

Lisa: Un huh.

Bruce: …you know, at that point in time when you say it, God the Father looks at you even as though you’re sinless, even though you’re NOT. You’re still CORRUPT. I mean, you’re just FILTHY.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: But He looks at you as if, as though you’re sinless, because of what Jesus has done, so that you can do IT.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright.

Lisa: But He, He expects, He, He expects different things from different people, right?

Bruce: You, you are a special person. You, your body is totally different from anybody else’s. You have sins that, it’s a network, it’s, it’s, it’s a tangled mess, to try to untangle the sin nature in the human body

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: He is the only one who knows how to do it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And, and it’s, it’s, He DOES it, but He, He, He can only do it step-by-step as He directs your paths, and this is what I’m telling you about everything you do needs to be directed by Him.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Because He’s untangling your sin nature.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: He’s getting rid of it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: But it’s a delicate process, because if, if you, if you, you know, have, what is the, what’s some games that you play that if a, you pull the wrong thing out that the whole thing will fall down, you know. It’s it’s…

Lisa: Jenga…

Bruce: Huh?

Lisa: I think it’s called Jenga, or…

Bruce: Alright, but it’s a very meticulous process.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: If it’s not done right, you’ll lose it.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: You, you won’t make it. And that’s why these people who try to, to, to, to, deliverance ministries who try to go by a set of rules on how to do this, they can HURT people more than they can HELP ‘em.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: It’s gotta be God’s way

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Everybody’s different. He’s the only one that knows how to work on YOU.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And that’s why, you know, He might let you hang on to smokin’ for a time.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Because He knows that if He tries to get you to smoke at, you know, it’s not gonna work, it’s just gonna ‘cause you distress and, and ‘cause you to just FALL AWAY.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: BUT, when He says it’s time to QUIT, you need to QUIT.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And He SAID that. So it’s time to quit.

Lisa: He said it’s time to quit.

Bruce: Alright, but He looks at us as though we’re sinless, and this is where the Holy Spirit comes in. See, in the Old Testament, before the Blood was applied, they couldn’t go through renewing of the mind. The mind is every cell in the body. Alright, before the process is through, when, when, when, when Paul said, uh, you know, “I’ve run a good race, I finished the course”, he MEANT IT. And what he MEANT was that he has allowed the Holy Spirit to come in him and take control of every cell in his body.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Can you understand that?

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Every cell in his body.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: The, the basic human body, the littlest, the smallest human body that you can call a living soul is a cell.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: It is body, soul, and spirit. Every cell is a body, soul, and spirit, which makes up the whole body, soul, and spirit.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright?

Lisa: And some of ‘em are still, ‘cause I still have a lot of a…

Bruce: Yeah, some of ‘em are VERY corrupt.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, and God has to DEAL with ‘em.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And the way He deals with ‘em is through obedience and suffering. The obedience is gonna bring you to, that’s what the fire is all about.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: When the fire, you know the tongues of fire came on their heads on the day of Pentecost, you know everybody thinks it’s such a great thing, that you know, it’s, it’s POWER. You know, you’re gonna get the adrenal rush and you’re gonna do great and mighty things. But that fire is, is burning up the SACRIFICE, and YOU’RE it!

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: We’re the sacrifice!

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: And the FIRE is meant to burn it up. You know, John the Baptist came with, you know, baptism unto, baptism unto repentance in water. But Jesus came with the fire.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, the water only just washes – the fire takes care of the problem.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: I, you know, I could go into this – it’s AWESOME when you really get into it.

Lisa: It, well it makes, it makes you understand, it makes you wanna do it even more, you know. But, I don’t, but okay, if, if say if He comes back before the process is over, He, we’re COVERED, right?

Bruce: You’re covered, AS LONG as you’re walking in that process.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You know, you, you don’t wanna be, that’s what Left Behind is all about.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: And that’s what the other sev’, the other six churches are all about.

Lisa: Okay, then, then why did He, why did, so, okay the promise that He made me, I will keep, “Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I will also keep thee from the hour of temptation…”

Bruce: That’s right, but what…

Lisa: Are you saying He’s, He’s taken back that promise?

Bruce: No, but what else goes with it?

Lisa: Ah, “Behold, him that overcometh…” right?

Bruce: What’s, what’s the one that you asked me, “Don’t let man…”

Lisa: “That no man take thy crown.”

Bruce: Okay, alright. That’s a possibility. Ah, you can lose what you had.

Lisa: And that would be denying Him, right?

Bruce: Well, yea, I mean, you know, we can, we can go back into the same sin that we’ve already gotten rid of. You know there’s a, there’s a lot of things, you know, I had to go to jail. I feared the heck – you know – have you read Job?

Lisa: Uh huh!

Bruce: Okay. One very, one very powerful statement that you can hang on to, Job said, “That which I feared the most has come upon me.”

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, you know, the thing, the place that we have to get to in order to be a fully committed to Christ, is that we fear NOTHING. And the only way that we can fear nothing is those things that we fear, we have to go through ‘em.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: But they have to be directed by God.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: It has to be in His time, in His power, under His direction. Alright, the first thing that Job lost was his riches, right?

Lisa: Yeah, his riches...

Bruce: The second thing he lost was his family.

Lisa: His family.

Bruce: And the third thing he lost was is health.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, three things that, you know, that we all try to possess.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: Alright.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: But he stayed steady with God.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: He didn’t curse God. He hung in. He suffered through the whole thing…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …and when he came out on the other side he didn’t fear those things.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: He was, he was renewed in Christ, he was now a loyal, faithful servant to God, he had nothing – the FLESH is what pulls us in to this FEAR. Why don’t you quit smoking? It’s easy, because you FEAR what you’re going to go through. You fear the suffering. You fear the withdrawal.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: I mean, there’s, there, but it’s all FEAR. It’s all FEAR based. And see, THAT’S gotta DIE.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And it WILL die, if you just set your face like a flint and don’t receive anything that comes against you to get you to try to pick up another cigarette.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, but…

Lisa: Do you think like, uh, Nicorette gum, or anything like that?

Bruce: Ask the Lord. Ask the Lord how He wants you to do it? Let Him be the One.

Lisa: Because that, that thought did come to my mind, to “Trust me”, every time I smoke a cigarette, I tell God, “Yes, I know this is wrong.” I’m, I ask for forgiveness. ‘Cause, and I tell Him that I’m not ready, you know, that I don’t feel that I’m ready…

Bruce: Huh huh huh (laughs).

Lisa: …but I feel that He wants me to, you know what I’m saying?

Bruce: I know what you mean!

Lisa: But I don’t DENY it, I, I don’t lie to Him, you know, I, I, I tell Him, I know, I know. But then this thought came in my head, you know, maybe my doctor can prescribe me something, like a, a pill, you know? ‘Cause I’ve been smoking since I was thirteen years old. But do you think…

Bruce: How old are you now?

Lisa: …to help kill the pain.

Bruce: How many years has that been?

Lisa: I’m thirty-three.

Bruce: Mkay. So that’s twenty years, huh?

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Well let’s just ask the Lord. I’ll come in agreement with you.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Heavenly Father, we just come to You again, Lord. We just thank You so much for, Lord, the telephone, and, and this communication link. And, and Lord, just, we, we just praise You for Your presence, and Lord, ah, we sincerely desire Your word. And ah, even though the flesh will come at us in a very intimidating way, Father God, we know that we’re able – through You – to do exactly what you say, Father God. So, ah, Lord concerning these cigarettes, ah, Lord is it, ah, is it Your will that there be some crutch, ah, to help in the process. Or Lord, is it You, and, and You only. Ah, Lord, ah, show us the way, and ah, that Sister Lisa might, ah, firmly, ah, be solely, ah, in Your will, Father God. Let it be all of You and none of her. And we give You the glory in it, in Jesus’ name. Amen.

Lisa: Amen.

(Part 2 audio reference – 19 mins. 57 secs.)

Bruce: Ah, but (pause) did He give you anything?

Lisa: I think so.

Bruce: Well speak it.

Lisa: I don’t think, I don’t thing He wants me to use a crutch.

Bruce: Okay. Alright. Praise God. You can do it!

Lisa: Is that what you got?

Bruce: Well, I didn’t get it, but I get “Yes, that’s what I got.” How’s that? Hehe (laughs).

Lisa: Okay, I’m…

Bruce: He didn’t give it to me in the beginning, but He did confirm what you said.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You know, give GOD the glory.

Lisa: Yes. Mm hmm.

Bruce: And that’s the only way you can do it.

Lisa: Okay. Ah, you know, I’ve done a lot harder things…

Bruce: I know it, it’s the “little foxes” that spoil the vines.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: It’s amazing.

Lisa: You’re right.

Bruce: I mean, the harder things, you seem to just be more determined, that you know, you see the big obstacle and you know you gotta, you know you’re gonna have to hit it head on.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: It’s the little things that, that Satan dilly dallys around with you, and you don’t take it serious enough.

Lisa: I know, I know. Okay. I can do it.

Bruce: But let, let me hit you with this real quick. The seven Spirits of God, Isaiah chapter 11.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, this is the brunt of, of how it works.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And, you know, if, if you feel that anything I ever tell you is not of God, please speak it back to me. You know, give me whatever the Lord, you feel the Lord is giving you.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Because I don’t want to teach anybody error.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: If I have error in, in, in, in me and what I say, I want it to be corrected.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Isaiah chapter 11, it, it talks about the seven Spirits of God

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Ah, Revelations, you read about the seven eyes of God

Lisa: YEAH, I was just readin’ that today.

Bruce: But this is all, it’s all the Spirit of God.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, but it works in seven different levels. Alright…

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …when you come to Christ, and begin this walk – this “clean up” walk – as He gets rid of the filth that’s in us. Alright, when you accept what Jesus did on the Cross – His Blood – that opens up the door for the Holy Spirit to come IN YOU...

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …to INDWELL you, and go into the darkest areas of your sinful soul, and root out, and tear down, and rebuild. It, it’s like, you know, you, you have a church of Satan on the corner.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, it’s a hideous building that’s serving that, you know, that, that beast, but yet God can take that building, tear it down, use the same building materials that was used to build it, and build a house of God.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Which is pleasing to God.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: Which gives Him glory. It’s the same way with us and our human body.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You know, we’ve trashed it up.

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: But God takes the same materials – the carbohydrates, the lipids, the, the what is a, a carbohydrates, lipids, whatever it is, I cain’t think of ‘em right now – but anyway...

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …takes the basic building material that is used to build a cell, He will tear it down, you know, the design of the building is spiritual…

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …the design of the cell is spiritual. So He’ll tear it apart, and rebuild it in His design. Same components. Alright, and the process is, once again, when you look at what Jesus did on the Cross, and believe in it, that starts the process. Alright.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: The Spirit of the Lord is number one. That’s the FIRST Spirit of God

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, and that’s when God looks at you, He knows who you are, and He knows what you need to get rid of the problem. He, He’s looking at the individual sin natures, He’s looking at this network of sin, and He’s got a word that’s gonna start the process.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, that’s the Spirit of the Lord. He sends it down. Alright, you receive this, as the Spirit of WISDOM.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: It’s a WORD!

Lisa: Oh, okay.

Bruce: It’s a WORD, it’s a VISION, it’s a THOUGHT, it’s whatever

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: It’s an UNCTION!

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright. THEN you have to take that one step further.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: What is it? What are you trying to say, Lord? Are you really seeking Him, do you really want to know what He wants of your life. Do you really want to go through this process of being changed, and, and your mind renewed in Christ. Alright, He will give you that next one, which is the Spirit of understanding.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, THEN you know what you gotta do. Alright, quit smoking (laughs). Alright, now, this is where it gets ROUGH. Alright, now you know what He wants you to do, and your flesh goes crazy.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: Alright? Alright, the very next one is what they DIDN’T have in the Old Testament. This is where the Spirit of God actually enters in to the sinful nature of mankind. You know, the veil was rent, right?

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: In the beginning, there had to be a separation, because the Blood hadn’t been applied

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, but now that He, the Blood’s been applied, the veil has been rent, the Holy Spirit can now come in contact with our sinful self.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, they didn’t have that in the Old Testament. WE got it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, and, and, and THAT one is the Spirit of counsel – the Comforter.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, that’s the FOURTH one. Because once we know what we gotta do, we go berserk, because of our flesh…

Lisa: Mm HMM.

Bruce: …and we have to call on Him, “I need Your help.”

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And, you know what we just did a while ago was basically putting the, the Spirit of counsel to work. We prayed and asked the Lord, “Do you really want, ah, Sister Lisa to stop smoking?” And also, you know, “Do you want her to do it with a crutch, or without?”

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Alright, so this is using the, the Comforter – the Counselor – to, to give you, you know, encouragement.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright?

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And the very NEXT one is, ah, the FIFTH one is the Spirit of MIGHT, the Spirit of strength.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Because you can’t do it, what He wants you to do, on your own.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: You’re going to have to lean on Him.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright? And then the very NEXT one is the Spirit of KNOWLEDGE, because we’re going to come to know Jesus and His – just a tiny bit – of what He went through on the Cross, as we suffer in obedience to the Word that He’s given us. We’re gonna die!

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Our flesh is gonna die!

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Are you with me?

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: Alright, and the very next one is the Spirit of the FEAR OF THE LORD, because once we have allowed Him to come in us through our obedience to His Word…

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: …and we suffer through it, we are going to die to that flesh that has continued to keep us from obeying God’s Word, and we’re gonna be reborn in His Spirit, which no longer fears that flesh. That flesh is gone.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: We now only fear God.

Lisa: And is that after He’s gotten everything out of us?

Bruce: Well, this is a step-by-step process.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: He works on it level by level.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: It’s, it’s, you know, it’s, and it’s you know, the higher you go, the deeper He gets, and the more horrendous, you know, the tougher it is, it’s like pullin’ a baby tooth, and then goin’ to pull on the wisdom tooth.

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: You know, the baby tooth was easy to pull out. The wisdom – you know – DYNAMITE to get it out. And, and that’s the way He works in us. He takes it level by level. And you know, He, He, He has to start easy.

Lisa: ‘Cause HONESTLY, this, this cigarettes is like the last stronghold. Bruce: Okay.

Lisa: You know, I, does that, do you believe in medication, like PRESCRIBED medication?

Bruce: I believe in medication if God tells me to take medication. Lisa: Okay, okay, which I’m weaning myself off of, because I felt He told me to wean myself off of. And I’m doin’ fine with that, you know, I’m doing okay with that. It, it’s just the cigarettes. That’s the hardest one.

Bruce: See…

Lisa: Now as far as sex, no more of that.

Bruce: Amen.

Lisa: That’s out of my life.

Bruce: Well, that’s horrendous.

Lisa: Yeah, so I, I try not to beat myself up, because, you know, from the life that I’ve lived to, you know, even cutting out caffeine, ‘cause I felt like He really doesn’t want that in me either…it’s just the CIGARETTES.

Bruce: Well, you, you’ve done GOOD, and you know, you don’t want to stop.

Lisa: No, I don’t.

Bruce: Because, you know once you stop obeying God in anything, you know, in ANYTHING that He asks you to do, you start backsliding.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: It, it’s a GIVEN.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: You know, when He has appointed you to get rid of a certain sin and you don’t get rid of it, that sin’s gonna grow, and it’s gonna start consuming you like a cancer.

Lisa: Okay. I believe that.

Bruce: And, and it doesn’t matter what you’ve done, and, and you know that goes back to Ezekiel chapter 3, about “If a man turns from his righteous ways”, ah, you know, it, it’s a downhill slide…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …and it’s UGLY.

Lisa: I just have one question (clear throat). Now Kathy, Kathy, the, the story about Kathy…

Bruce: Yeah.

Lisa: …um, so she just doesn’t, she doesn’t follow Christ at all? Is, is that, that why she’s, the Lord is done with her? Is that why?

Bruce: Well, she, she’s, ah, did you read the one about, ah, Obedience Is Better Than Death (http://www.fmh-child.org/S8.19.07.html)?

Lisa: Yes.

(Part 2 audio reference – 30 mins. 53 secs.)

Bruce: Alright, that one, that one just overwhelmed me. I mean, I, I was in SHOCK…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …because it was, it was so quick. And it was like, you know, I just knew that she was gonna make it, I knew THIS Kathy – her name was Kathy, too – I knew she was gonna make it, I mean, I mean, you didn’t read all the e-mails, but what you read should have convinced you that this woman was speakin’ to God. I mean, she was having CONVERSATIONS with God.

Lisa: Is she the one with the CHURCH?

Bruce: Yeah!

Lisa: Okay, yeah – but you gave her DIRECT WORD…

Bruce: I gave her…

Lisa …to leave that church, right?

Bruce: …to LEAVE that church.

Lisa: And, and she DISOBEYED…

Bruce: Well, but she said she was GONNA obey. You know, she was, you know, right up to the very last minute, she was gonna BE THERE, on that eight o’clock phone call, and she was not gonna go to church, so she could speak – you know – do what God wanted her to do, and have that conversation.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: And the min, and when I made that call and she wasn’t there, I just had this, I mean it was SINKING in my stomach that was NAUSEATING.

Lisa: Okay

Bruce: And I just said, “NO, this can’t be.” Because I just knew she was gonna make it.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: And I said, you know, she’s, she’s, it had to be an EMERGENCY, you know, she passed out because she was fasting – they had to take her to the hospital. And, but NO! You know, she did it ONE MORE TIME – she, she folded her arms and looked at God, and says, “No, I’m not going to do it.” And that was IT. That was the LAST time.

Lisa: Did she know he was preaching, like not, NOT the truth, even though she KNEW, did she KNOW that he was, that what he was preaching was wrong?

Bruce: Well YEAH, she even said it in the e-mails that you know that, ah, Belvedere [Bevere] – the Bible study that we’re having, Word-Faith – she KNEW that it was wrong.

Lisa: Ooooh…

Bruce: And she, she talked about, you know how he, her, people say he’s [John Bevere] is a heretical teacher.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: But she KNEW it, I mean, she knew it, all she had to do was take it to the point of believing it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, but, you know, it just, it STYMIED me that, you know – KATHY – this thing went on for three years for her, with her.

Lisa: Kathy Q…

Bruce: Kathy Kowtko

Lisa: Yeah, with, with what you wanted her to do…

Bruce: It was LONG, and drawn out, you know. It was, it was an on ONGOING thing. But this OTHER one, her name was Kathy Kuntz…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …I mean it was just BOOM – and it was over.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: You know WE DON’T KNOW, we don’t know how much longer God’s gonna give us when we are in sin, and in rebellion, when we’re not doing what He wants. Ah, and, and you know she, she, as she spoke to me through those e-mails and all, I mean, she was telling me what God was telling her, and it was OBVIOUS.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: Ah, He was WARNING her, TIME and TIME again. Tellin’ her about “The 9th of Av”, you know, how, you know rebellion is just, it brings continued ,ah, heartache, from, you know, from repercussions from God.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: But, you know, but, but Kathy Kowtko, it was just, ah, you know, I have been around her for so long. You know, that went way back into my college days.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: And I saw how she was, you know, she, ah, a molested person just begs for more, more molestation…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …most of the time. And, and, and that’s the way she was, and, and, ah, back in those days I was doin’ drugs and alcohol myself, and you know we would get really RIPPED, and, and at time she would, you know, she would proposition ME, and I remember very well. Uh, hold on just a minute. [Alarm sounds.] But she had, you, know, I actually saw the demon, demons that she had.

Lisa: Mm hmm, yeah, you saw ‘em on her face.

Bruce: Yeah, her face and her neck.

Lisa: Hey, so, okay, I have to ask you this: Since you are a “last cha, chance ministry”, you know, basically you, you’re their the last hope, you know, God through you is giving them their last chance, did um, like would you tell me, like if the Lord – I really believe this – the Lord would tell you, “Tell Lisa this is her last chance!” Right? And then you would tell me, right?

Bruce: I would do what the Lord told me to do.

Lisa: Okay. Because that’s what I always pray, I’m like, “Please”, ‘cause when I read that story about Kathy, and about the other girl, I was like, “Pl, please, Lord, if, if anything, if I’m ever doing anything that You don’t want me to do, or, or, you know what I’m saying, “If this is my ‘last chance’ please let me know.” ‘Cause I just would hate that.

Bruce: Yeah, but, but, you know, not so much from the stand, you know, we, we, we don’t want to go to Hell…

Lisa: No…

Bruce: …that’s FOR SURE, but then again, you know, what Jesus did on the Cross – we’ve WASTED it. You know…

Lisa: We’ve wasted it?

Bruce: …if we LOSE it, if we LOSE our salvation, we’ve wasted what He did on the Cross.

Lisa: Right.

Bruce: Ah, but, but, no, I mean, you know, you got in CONTACT. We’re here to help you NOT FAIL

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: We know, you know, I mean the things that I have experienced, uh, that the Lord has taken me through – and only because I was obedient…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …has prepared me to help people like you, who are very SPECIAL, who are very GIFTED, and who God has big plans for, but likewise, you know, the devil has some pretty heavy artillery aimed at you.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You can’t afford to MISS A BEAT. I mean, that, THAT’S the BOTTOM LINE. You can’t afford to miss a step. You, you gotta focus on that, you can’t make excuses.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And that’s why He put us together. I’m here to help you understand that.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You can’t play games.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Not even the, the SMALLEST game.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And, and, you know, even, and, and (sighs), and the thing with the church, just make sure, you know this is, when you go, it’s what God wants, and you’re, as you go into it, now be very sensitive to His voice.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Because you’re a prophet, and He’ll have you speak correction, or whatever.

Lisa: Oh, He already has.

Bruce: Alright, but we go to church because He’s got us there to, to STRAIGHTEN UP the church.

Lisa: Okay, see that’s what I felt like He said that what you just told me, I felt like that’s what He was telling ME.

Bruce: Okay, well that’s your job.

Lisa: Okay. And, and you know, I, I, I had tried correcting, ah, the, the ladies’ ah, the ladies’ ministry. She was having, um, BETH MOORE…

Bruce: Oh, my goodness!

Lisa: …teachings in there. And, you know, I’m, NEW at this, but I had read on your website, and I believed it, you know I BELIEVED it…

Bruce: Beth Moore and the little old Long [Beth Moore And Mr. Longlocks (http://www.fmh-child.org/S3.18.07.html)], what was it, Mr. Longlocks?

Lisa: Longlocks. Longlocks. And I tried tellin’ her, you know, I was like, “Please check this out!” And I think she got really offended, and then, I even thought about going to the pastor and telling the pastor that, that she’s, that they’re doing that in the women’s ministry, but um, you know, do you think I should? ‘Cause, ‘cause I asked ‘em. I said, “What are y’all doing in the women’s ministry?” “Oh, we’re doing more of Beth Moore’s, ah, teaching tapes.” And then it just kinda made me, I was like, “Oh, no!”

Bruce: Well, do you feel that the Lord was directing you to do that?

Lisa: What I said to her?

Bruce: No, to talk to the minister.

Lisa: Um, the, the thought came, I need to pray about it. The, the thought came to my mind. I felt like “Him being the pastor, he should guard his flock.” And um, if, if, I don’t think – from what I’ve read and what the Lord has confirmed in me – that they should not be listening to her, or to her teachings…

Bruce: Well, I, I’ll confirm it, but just, you know, ask the Lord when He would have you to do it. But yeah, you’ve already, you’ve done the FIRST STEP…

Lisa: Yeah, by telling her?

Bruce: Yeah, you, you’ve gone to her, she didn’t correct it, so now, the, the one who’s responsible, you know, over the whole flock should, you’re gonna find out, you know, you’re gonna find out who he really is.

Lisa: Okay. So, just, just tell him about Beth Moore and that?…

Bruce: Well, let the Lord lead you, but, you know, the, I, I’m confirming that the thought you had of going to the pastor was from God.

Lisa: It WAS from God?

Bruce: Yes ma’am.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: But, you know, I had, I had, I had never heard of the woman [Beth Moore]. If I had, you know, it didn’t stick. I, I’ve never seen her on TV or anything, you know. I was not really, ah, I was not connected up to her. And when that pastor sent me that, that little, cute little story, it really grabbed me. I mean it was so, it was so, you know, it was something that you really wanted to share with people. Ah, it was, it had a lot of emotion in it. Ah, and ah, but I had, I had this CHECK – I knew something WASN’T RIGHT…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …I just knew it. I didn’t know what it was, I just knew something wasn’t, wasn’t right. So I prayed. And the Lord sent me on the website, and on the Internet, and started searching out Beth Moore…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …and that’s when it all came in. I mean, WOW!

(Part 2 audio reference – 40 mins. 17 secs.)

Lisa: It’s amazing, as how, it’s easy how stuff like that can creep in. Like I, that’s, that’s what led me to your website, was I, I prayed to the Lord to not let me be deceived, to not let me, to please guard my mind and guard my ears, from any false doctrines, or teachings, or anything like that, because I definitely wanted, because all the things that, that, that, you know, um, Paul, and all them warn you about. I didn’t want to fall into that deception, you know, because I have been deceived so much, but I didn’t want any more of it, and that, and then He led me to your website. And glory to God, He did that. You know…

Bruce: Thank You, Jesus!

Lisa: …so, I always check you website to see what you say, and especially with the Catholic Church. I’m trying, trying to reach any Catholics, especially my mom, and trying to be gentle with her about it, ‘cause, you know, that’s a whole other issue right there. But He keeps leading me to Jonah, so I don’t know if I, you know, if that what He wants me to do, is to (sigh) leave my parents, leave my family, or leave the church, I don’t know, I need to pray about it. I’ll keep praying about it…

Bruce: Alright, but, you know, we’re here for you. It’s a, right now it’s only a, me and Brother Alan, he’s in a wheelchair, he’s a paraplegic.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And that’s what it took to save His life. God knocked his legs out from under him to save him.

Lisa: Really?

Bruce: And ah, but he is, he is a powerful, ah, part of the ministry now. Ah – you know – there’s very few, I mean very – I just can’t say that enough…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …that you just can’t find ‘em who are willing to just be corrected when they’ve gotten off course, and they’re willing to just – you know – make that course correction. Ah, he’s it. When he came here, ah, he moved over here in, ah, April the 19th of 2004.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Ah, he was a basket case. I mean he had been through, ah, depression…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …um, I mean he was like he didn’t even have a brain.

Lisa: Really?

Bruce: I mean he, he couldn’t do anything. He couldn’t, he couldn’t make a list, he couldn’t, I mean he, he, he was just a ZOMBIE.

Lisa: So what made him come there?

Bruce: GOD!

Lisa: How do you He’s calling you there?

Bruce: Well, God kept telling him to come. And, it’s, you know, you’ll, you’ll read about him throughout the, as the Lord directs you to read these sermonets. But our connection was Jimmy Swaggart.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And I met him at one of the first Campmeetings that God told me to attend.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: And, believe it or not, but it was through my e-wife.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: She was very gifted, ah, but she used her gifts for Satan. But, you know, God COULD USE her at times. And He did. And ah, she was very, ah, she was very charismatic. I mean she, she would, she could talk to anybody, and she could get anything she wanted, from even a perfect stranger. She had “the gift of gab”.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: And she was the one who went over and talked to Alan. I’m, I was the exact opposite. You know, I’m a recluse. I’m very shy.

Lisa: Oh, really.

Bruce: And, yeah. And, and, but she went and talked to him, and then, we, we met. And then from that point on, the Lord had me to pick him up in Houston every time that I made my journey to Campmeeting in Baton Rouge, Louisiana.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: And that’s how it all began. And, ah, if I wouldn’t have obeyed God, you know, I wouldn’t have the best member that we’ve got of this ministry, right now. The strongest, um, you know, member. Ah, but anyway, we’re here in an apartment, in El Paso, and ah, great and mighty things are coming.

Lisa: Uh huh. I believe it, I believe the Lord is raising up an army.

Bruce: But yes, but…

Lisa: He is.

Bruce: …there’s, you have to go through hundreds of ‘em before you get to ONE who’s gonna stick.

Lisa: Right!

Bruce: I mean HUNDREDS!

Lisa: Mm hmm. I believe that, ‘cause the, the verse, you know when you said, “Many are called, few are chosen”, that just sticks out in my mind, that even before you said it. You know, that’s, that’s what I, I kept saying, “Many are called, few are chosen”. You know, the gate is very narrow.

Bruce: Very narrow.

Lisa: So…

Bruce: And what is it that we love MORE than God? You know, I mean…

Lisa: What is it that we love more than Him?

Bruce: Yeah, and, and you’ll find out, you know. Every step that you take during the day, you know, God will show you. Ah, believe me! I mean, God still, I still struggle DAILY with some of the things that, that He speaks to you, you want to immediately put your hands to your ears and not here it.

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: Alright?

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: I struggle with that!

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And, and, and it’s dangerous! You know? I mean, that’s your SALVATION. Really!

Lisa: Yes.

Bruce: You know. Because if you don’t work out the sin, the sin’s gonna overcome you, and you’re gonna LOSE it. You, you CAN lose your salvation – it’s not because the Blood isn’t sufficient, it’s because you’re not willing to go.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And, and, and, and oh I can, I could tell you, a lot of things, but um…

Lisa: Okay, so, do you, but I KNOW, I KNOW you believe in the outpouring, okay, in the “Last Days”, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit…

Bruce: Alright.

Lisa: …okay, “on ALL flesh.”

Bruce: “The latter rain”. Right!

Lisa: Okay. Do you, so, do you believe that’s when a lot of people are gonna be SAVED? I mean, ‘cause right now it, it seems like there’s so FEW that are really, REALLY saved, are REALLY walking in obedience. Do you agree?

Bruce: Let me put it to you this way: The Holy Spirit – the Power – that we receive from Him in this “latter rain” is gonna be a POWERFUL move of the Holy Spirit.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, BUT, God fights fair, so Satan will be allowed an equal amount of power to come against ‘em. You don’t get SOMETHING for NOTHING.

Lisa: Are you SERIOUS?

Bruce: I’m serious. Evil becomes more evil.

Lisa: See, because I thought evil has always been just a LITTLE bit – I know it’s not stronger than God – but for some reason it seems like it’s more, it’s more ABUNDANT. You know what I’m sayin’. And I just figured that He, He would just ONE LAST TIME, He would just put in, you know, so much of His Spirit, just, you know what I’m sayin’? That’s how I felt, or, that’s how I felt about it. But I guess…

Bruce: No, it’s, it’s gonna a MOVE, you know, of the Spirit that’s, you know, a little bit like Azusa Street, and you know, the outpouring of the Holy Spirit there – but there will be EQUAL opposition to it. You, you, you…

Lisa: At the same time?

Bruce: …yes! It, it’s gotta be FAIR. I mean, God plays on a fair playing field against Satan. And, I had something and I lost it, what is it Lord. Bring it back. Ah, I don’t remember, but um. Oh yeah, I know what it was. The government!

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Abortion…

Lisa: Yeah.

Bruce: …plain and simple, is the government offering sacrifices of children to Satan. Plain and simple.

Lisa: You think that’s what it is?

Bruce: That’s all it is! It’s the government offering blood sacrifices of innocent babies to Satan. Plain and simple. Ah…

Lisa: And, and they willingly know this?

Bruce: They willingly KNOW this. You know the, the Tsunami that, that wiped out, you know the, in the, what was it, the Indian Ocean, that wiped out, back in December of 2000 and, what was it? 2004?

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: Do you remember that big Tsunami?

Lisa: Uh, where, where was that? I think I know what you’re talking about.

Bruce: It was in, I believe it was in the Indian Ocean, and it really wiped out some, I mean it took out A LOT of people!

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: But the minute that that happened, at the time I was with, ah, I was living with a Messianic Jew…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: …very gifted, who’s since fallen away. But anyway, and God showed him a man, a, men under the ocean, planting devices.

Lisa: Planting devices?

Bruce: Planting devices. As in BOMBS.

Lisa: Uh huh. OH, to CAUSE that?

Bruce: To CAUSE it. When I asked the Lord, I said, “LORD, is this true? Is this – would You verify this?” And He said, “Yes.” And He said Bush was behind it.

Lisa: Oh my God, do you, okay…

Bruce: This is POWER. Power corrupts.

Lisa: Do you think that we will ever gain America back?

Bruce: No!

(Part 2 audio reference – 49 mins. 58 secs.)

Lisa: We’re, it’s lost…

Bruce: It’s lost. God has already shown me, I mean, it’s no use in even voting, because it’s already set in place.

Lisa: Okay, so…

Bruce: All we can do is save souls.

Lisa: …so what do you think the next step is? I mean, for, for us, as Christians, or, or you. Like what you’re, like what, what do we do?

Bruce: We’re to go in and give the church ONE LAST CHANCE. You know, this is what you’re to do with the pastor, go in and tell him that they’re preaching ungodly stuff through Beth Moore’s teachings.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You’re, you’re to give him that word.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And if he’s got any God in him, he’s gonna pray about it.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And he’s going to seek God, because he’s really concerned about his flock.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: And if he’s one of these “laid back” preachers that’s, that’s in it for the money, you know, a hireling, he’s just gonna blow you off.

Lisa: Okay. Hey, on your website, it, it, it listed some, some Bible, some good Bible churches, or you know, some churches, like in your area. Are you familiar with that part of your website?

Bruce: It, it doesn’t come to mind. What…

Lisa: Well, there’s like a, like you can click on one of these little things, and then it says, um…

Bruce: Oh, it was one of the links?

Lisa. Yeah, one of the links .

Bruce: Mkay.

Lisa: And it lists some, ah, some GOOD churches, or whatever, and it listed one in Garland, you know, that I guess it’s close to my house. It wasn’t MY church, I know that…

Bruce: Well, pray about it, you know, I mean, was that God speaking to you – was that an unction? I don’t know what you’re talking about, but you know, you saw this.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, pray about it. Ask the Lord if He would have you to go there, because you know, when you give this word to the preacher, this might be the last word that you give. And God might say, “Move.”

Lisa: Okay. OKAY. So I can just e-mail you, or whatever?

Bruce: Listen, the phone number’s right there on the website. It’s (915) 751-6789

Lisa: Oh, I didn’t even see that. Thank you.

Bruce: Alright, it’s, it’s right underneath the sun and the plant.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: But, um, you know we’re, we’re on the computer a lot, um, you don’t have Messenger do you?

Lisa: No, uh huh.

Bruce: Alright, well…

Lisa: I don’t’ think so, what is that?

Bruce: MSN Hotmail, you know, the…

Lisa: Yeah, I have Hotmail.

Bruce: Alright, but you can get MSN Messenger, which is, um, if you’re on the computer it’ll, it’ll automatically let you know somebody’s trying to get in contact with you.

Lisa: Oh, I don’t know if I have that or not. Do you?

Bruce: Ah, yeah, we got it, and ah…

Lisa: I, I always check it, I check it all day long.

Bruce: Okay, oh well, but you know, we’re here for you, and…

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …and, and, you know, you’re very important…

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …and the battle’s going to get tough. And, ah, we’re here to pray with you, for you, ah, help you to hear, you know, God’s voice. ‘Cause, you know, at times it just, it’s impossible almost to hear Him.

Lisa: Ah, see, that’s how I feel – that sometimes it’s impossible.

Bruce: Yeah, I remember, you know, when, when I was at the “breaking point”, ah, it was either, ah, I was gonna make it through – you know, I equate it to the sound barrier. When Chuck Yeager got in a jet to break the sound barrier – for the first time – he didn’t know what was going to happen. You know, they had, they had, they had theories, that, you know, that the plane would make it, but then again, there was concern that the plane could just go into, ah, vibrant, shaking, you know, shaking and just destroy itself.

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: So when he got in that plane, and he PUSHED it to that speed that would break the sound barrier…

Lisa: Mm hmm.

Bruce: …it really just started vibrating uncontrollably. So he had to make up his mind whether he would push on through…

Lisa: Uh huh.

Bruce: ...or STOP. And he pushed on through. And the minute that he went through that, that speed, it just, it was like sailing on GLASS. It just, all the vibration stopped, and it was just smooth as it could be…

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: …alright, and that’s the way it is with US.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: You know, you’re, you’re gonna THINK you can’t make it ONE MORE second.

Lisa: Okay.

Bruce: Alright, and, and, and, and how…

___________________________________________________________________

Home | E-mail Lisa
FMH Children’s Club International